Transcript 0:01 Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of the Fireside Podcast presented by The Almanac. 0:08 And last week we went for an adventure, um, and we ended up in Tofino, which is now part of our Pacific Rim coverage for The Almanac, for our weekly newsletter, and we went surfing. 0:22 And while we were surfing, I met Elijah, and Elijah was our surf instructor, and we connected while we were over there, and naturally I said, "Hey, Elijah, you wanna come on the podcast?" 0:32 And being the gent that he is, he said, "Yes, let's make it happen." 0:37 So welcome to the podcast, Elijah, and today we're gonna be talking about everything from your background in rock climbing, outdoor sports, surf instruction, and then just kind of some of the cool stuff that kind of surrounds, uh, Tofino. 0:51 Thanks for coming on. Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having me. Excited to be here. Oh, yeah. No, it's great. It's great. How's the weather in beautiful Tofino today? Uh, honestly, it's been pretty good. 1:03 You guys had it good when you were here, and it's been continuing- Yeah... right through October. Had a really rainy summer, so glad to be through that. It's nice, crisp fall weather at the moment. I'm loving it. 1:13 Beautiful, and when does that, uh, prime time surf season start? Kind of now. Usually spring and fall have kind of the best seasons. 1:24 Winter, from what I've heard, haven't been there for the full season, tends to get larger swells, so the real diehards are out there giving it their all. Yeah. 1:31 Sometimes you get a bit, a little bit blown out, that kind of thing, but yeah. It's crazy. I know that there's people that surf Lake Ontario, and that's the closest body of water to us. Yeah. But you see them out there. 1:41 And I, I thought before because there is a decently thick wetsuit that we get or that your- Yeah... 1:46 company provided when we went out, and I always thought it was just gonna be impossible to move in, but it's actually really... it's quite malleable. Like it's a- Yeah, once- It works... definitely, yeah. 1:56 Once, uh, once you put it on, it's like super restrictive, and then once you kind of get it in the water, everything relaxes a little bit, and yeah, you'd be surprised how well you can move in them. But yeah- Yeah... 2:04 we're, um, here in the Pacific, we're not even the hardcore guys. 2:07 Like there's, uh, one of our old head instructors, um, Adam Tory, moved out to Nova Scotia, started his own surf school out there, and I recently saw a video of him in a blizzard doing a surf check, already dressed up in his wetsuit. 2:19 Wind's going sideways 50 kilometers an hour in the snow, and he's like, "Yeah, it's a little bit blown out today. [laughs] I don't think we're gonna go out," after driving- Oh, wow... 2:28 I think about two hours to go for a surf check. [laughs] Wow. That's commitment right there. Like- Yeah, yeah... you gotta be in love- It's-... with the sport. [laughs] Definitely. He's a diehard, for sure. 2:39 [laughs] Yeah. And it's, that's, that's crazy, man. I, I, I... when I was in university, I did a lot of ice fishing. You did? And folks would always be like, "Oh, that's, that's like a pretty hardcore activity." 2:50 No, you're sitting inside for the most part, and if you're outside, you're bundled up. Yeah. [laughs] But going out into the waves [laughs] in the middle of a winter storm, that takes- Definitely, yeah... 2:58 a different type of love. [laughs] Yeah. Oh, man. That's a little bit too hardcore for me. I'm quite happy to be at home and be comfortable when it's like that. [laughs] Yeah. I hear that. Nice. 3:07 So I know you mentioned briefly that you were involved in rock climbing, or probably still are in some capacity, but you went from the north face to the south shore. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 3:18 [laughs] And, uh, just thought kind of how did that transition happen, and how did you end up in Tofino from New Zealand? Yeah, great question. Um, I have always been interested in the outdoors. 3:30 Growing up in New Zealand, started what we call tramping, what you guys call backpacking, that kind of thing, staying in huts in the mountains- Yeah... and that kind of stuff. 3:36 Mostly influenced by my stepfather, who was a really big snowboarder and mountaineer, like quite successful climber back in his day. 3:45 And then where I was growing up in New Zealand, we didn't have a lot of surf, climb, or snowboarding. It was around, but you kind of had to work for it a little bit. 3:54 Um, so it wasn't really until I got to university that I really got involved with snowboarding first. Okay. 3:59 Doing some trips down to the South Island and that kind of thing, which is like really close to where I grew up, um, but never really had the access to it. 4:06 When I was at that age, was kind of more interested in other things, art pursuits and all sorts of things like that. 4:12 And then, yeah, from there, through university, I got involved with the, uh, our climbing team and, uh, really flourished in that environment. 4:19 Loved the kind of working through puzzles part of it, the like physical pursuits, a lot of really pushing through like mental barriers for sure. 4:28 Um, and so ended up becoming the president of our climbing club in my last two years of university, um, and then managed to land a job in that time as well, um, instructing at our local gym, um, which I loved. 4:42 There's a lot of crossover there with how it runs here with like doing regular lessons, like a lot of the time that's just teaching people how to belay, giving them some climbing tips, that kind of thing. 4:50 But you'd also have school groups coming in and getting kids out in the water, or sorry, on the, on the wall that aren't maybe super stoked, but yeah, getting them to push through that. Um- Yeah... 5:00 and then kinda in that time, like really fell in love with outdoor climbing, especially in New Zealand. Getting involved with 5:07 access trusts and that kind of thing as well to really kind of give back to the community and build those, those spaces. 5:13 And then, yeah, found, found surfing, uh, when I was off one summer with my friend, which I'd always been interested in but wasn't really the avenue that I was thinking I was gonna go into. 5:22 Um, a friend in Christchurch introduced me to it and then, yeah, it was a, a good thing to do when the conditions on the climbing wall weren't great or there was no snow, [laughs] um, basically. Yeah. But yeah, it's... 5:34 Yeah, enjoyed the, the learning process of all of it. Like once I'd kind of figured out snowboarding, then I could... got comfortable in that space and I was like, "I wanna find something else different." Found climbing. 5:44 Really like that's like a whole world of movement that you're kind of exploring and technique and the technical side of rope management, and then surfing's kinda similar, uh, in terms of movement and that kind of stuff. 5:56 But understanding your environment I think is the main kind of difference in that, in that point. Yeah, I, I find that I've got a lot of friends that have either... 6:05 Like, I have one buddy that moved out to the island, and while he was out there, he, I know, had a lot of friends that visited him, um, that were into climbing and stuff like that. 6:14 He's a big, like, ultra runner, that kind of guy. Mm-hmm. So he does a lot of those types of trail running things. 6:19 But it seems like once you're kinda in the fold a bit with the outdoor adventure sports, you, you kinda... Running is a great gateway drug, I guess. Mm-hmm. And then it gets into- Yeah... 6:29 trail running, and then you're doing climbing or bouldering, climbing, and then kinda goes from there. But yeah, that's really interesting. 6:35 And just having, you know, these different types of activities that are available in New Zealand, Canada- Mm-hmm... 6:41 because of just the abundance of natural space, and, um, it's just a good, it fosters a good environment. 6:47 It's kind of like the kindling for having good times outside is having premier outdoor space, which, yeah, Tofino is, is stocked to the brim with. But yeah, no, that's super cool, and I really... 6:57 Like, I only went out surfing once before. Mm-hmm. It was many years ago, we were in Hawaii, but it was a different vibe, and I like your style of coaching. 7:05 The way I described it to some folks when I came back is like, it's like going to the driving range at golf, and then you can go ahead and work on your swing- Yeah... 7:13 and then the pro comes around and says, "All right, hit a few more balls, but I'm noticing that you're doing this, so maybe square your shoulders- Yeah... and hit..." 7:19 But it's the fact that you're like, okay, and then you can directly implement it, instead of being in a state where maybe it's more like, "Okay, let's try again." 7:27 And then the instructor brings you back to your board and lines you up. Having the ability to receive direct instruction and then implement it on your own is very cool. Mm-hmm. 7:37 And I think it's one of those things, like surfing is a thing where it's like I grew up snowboarding. Mm-hmm. 7:42 It's like the number of reps that you get into it is gonna be how quickly you take it on, just like anything else. Yeah. So yeah, I like that, 'cause it was... 7:50 Yeah, it was like you were there to, to make sure that I didn't, [laughs] I didn't go drifting off, but also like- Yeah, yeah... you gave the tips and the pointers to... Yeah, it was awesome. 7:59 That was the first time I ever stood up, so that was fun. [laughs] That's awesome. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You guys are great. Yeah. 8:03 Those are always my favorite lessons as well, like someone that is capable enough to kind of get it on their own, and would get there eventually, whether it be in a month or so. 8:13 But yeah, like being able to kind of keep on pushing those little points and then reacting to those as the student and kinda- Yeah... internalizing them and realizing that, yeah, I was doing that. 8:23 And then maybe you might not get it on the next wave, but you kind of are conscious of that and can kinda make some moves to, to implement it. Oh, yeah. No, it's just the... 8:32 Honestly, man, I'm not, not trying to pump your tires, but you did a great job. [laughs] And like, it was just like simple instruction that really, like, just helped break the process down. 8:44 'Cause it's weird, surfing's a funny thing. Like- Mm-hmm... I've done wakeboarding, I've done, uh, snowboarding, quite a bit of snowboarding. I grew up skateboarding, doing whatever. 8:51 But like, board sports are not new to me, but it's the fact- Mm-hmm... you're timing a wave. Yeah. And you're like, "Okay, where's this thing behind me?" 8:58 And you're constantly looking behind you, and you're listening to the noise, and you're like, "Okay, well, this thing is just around the corner." Uh- Mm-hmm... is it gonna come? 9:07 And then, you know, there you are trying to, to stand up. But yeah, it's a very unique sport. Yeah. 9:13 I like to say, even compared to climbing and snowboarding, I think it's the hardest sport [laughs] that I've ever come across, and there's a crazy amount of technical depth into all of it, like a lot of it coming from the environment itself, like wave reading. 9:28 You just end up, like, looking at waves, and then enough, you spend enough time in the water that it starts to kind of become intuitive. Yeah. But yeah, you've really gotta put that time into just being out there. 9:36 And then yeah, like how the board performs, how you're doing, bringing your weight onto the board, everything like that is- Yeah... the, yeah. It's a huge difference maker. 9:47 But I love with the, the learner boards, or I, I f- forget the technical term for them, but how they have the, the lines down the center and everything. Mm-hmm. 9:55 It's very easy to help position yourself when you've got those, like, physical reminders right there. And it was funny, I felt my chin the next day after, I was like, "Did I scrape up my chin?" 10:04 But it was because of the fact that [laughs] I was like- Yeah, down on the, yeah... my nose, my, right, chin on the board. So yeah, no, it's, it's fun, man. It's fun. Do you remember your first wave? 10:14 Yeah, I remember my first wave. I think it'd be probably like the same wave that you might have. Like, you kinda catch that wave, you like finally get up, and you're like, "Oh, sweet." Yeah. 10:25 I remember, not to, to toot my own horn or anything, but I remember- Yeah... it didn't take me that long to stand up. Uh, again- Yeah... I had like a really good teacher, like my mate was out there with me. Mm-hmm. 10:36 Um, but I don't think that in the same way that my first like couple of climbs really had much of an impact, it was more so like those experiences where you've put the work in, um, and- Mm-hmm... 10:48 knowing what you've wanted to be doing, and then it finally pays off. Like the first time that I'd kinda caught a green wave and ridden it down the line, 10:57 or like a climb that I've been working on for months and I've finally unlocked because I've like worked out what I'm doing. And it's the same- Yeah... 11:05 kind of process as you're bashing your head against a brick wall for ages- Yeah... not quite knowing what you're doing wrong. Um- Yeah... 11:12 and then finally something clicks and you're like, "Oh my God, that's what I've been missing this whole time." Whereas when it feels 11:19 you've had that hard, hard moment after hard moment, and then it finally feels effortless and you're like, "Oh," that's that elation that I think- Yeah... really impacts me and what I'm always chasing. 11:29 [laughs] You know, it doesn't matter if it's sports, business, something, there's- Mm-hmm... 11:34 there's that moment where it's like, like you just said, it's like you've been trying to start the car up and you hear it break, and then all of a sudden, "Vroom, gr, gr, gr, gr, gr, gr, gr" and then it's going, right? 11:44 It's, that's a beautiful feeling. And yeah, it's something that it's definitely frustrating at times trying to get to that point, but once you- Mm-hmm... get there, and then it's just that steady... 11:56 That one piece of advice you gave me, there was a few different things you said, but one of them was about taking less time, or yeah, taking more time to stand up. 'Cause I was popping up like it was, I was... 12:08 You know what I mean? Like, I was being timed, like I was doing a burpee. Yeah. [laughs] But you know what I mean? 12:12 Like, just doing it nice and slow, even keel, those are the things that make a difference, and those are the things where, in a sport like surfing, where it's all, you know, repetition, and like- Mm-hmm... 12:22 there's always another wave that's gonna come through, you can implement that right away. 12:26 It's not like a sport, I grew up playing lacrosse, and there's certain things where it's like, okay, well, you're gonna get an opportunity to do that, and then if you don't take advantage of that opportunity, you don't know when the next time is gonna be, because it's a sport that's very... 12:38 There's a lot of moving pieces. With surfing- Yeah... a lot of moving pieces, but it's predictable in the sense where you're gonna get another opportunity as soon as you're ready to, [laughs] to have another opportunity. 12:48 Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. I think that's why I grew up in some sports, played softball for a little bit, played football for a while, and never really found the groove in those spaces. Um- Yeah... 13:00 like, I enjoyed the physical side of it, but never really was... Felt like I was tested mentally, and it wasn't until I... 13:05 It was like, it's because I'm having to do it on someone else's timeframe, and that doesn't- Mm-hmm... work for me. And so, yeah- Yeah... 13:12 those outdoor endeavors where it's just you, and maybe a small group of you, but, um- Yeah... kind of doing things in your own time, and you're not playing someone else, you're playing the space, basically. Um- Mm-hmm... 13:24 and that kind of allows you to, yeah, meditate on it almost, make a, make a plan, really be a lot more- Yeah... like, technical with how you want to approach things, and that kind of thing. Oh, for sure. Yeah. No. 13:35 My, my, my experience in that, the surfing space is very limited, but in cycling or anything like that, where you're doing some big ride, it's like- Mm-hmm... 13:43 it's so mentally daunting, and there's this just meditative space you can kinda get into where it's like, okay, here's the task at hand. I'm only competing with myself here, and let's just get through it. And- Yeah... 13:57 getting through it and enjoying it at the same time, that's a [laughs] that's a special, a special moment when you can accomplish that. 14:03 But I think, yeah, like, ending up in those kind of meditative states or a flow state, it's, it really brings out creativity in other areas of your life, where- Mm-hmm... 14:12 you can leave situations feeling recharged and maybe from a different perspective. Because it's easy to get, sometimes I think, trapped in a... 14:22 I used to say this when I was working at different places, trapped in the cubicle. You're thinking within the confines of a space, when in reality- Yeah... you can move around and figure it out. 14:32 So I think that sports like that definitely provide that, the ability to, to kinda have that effect. But- Yeah. No, absolutely. Yeah. Nice. While you see a lot of first-timers, I'm sure, out on the board- Mm-hmm... 14:46 what's the, is there, like, a mistake that most people make in the first 10 minutes, where it's like you can kinda 14:52 look at it and go, uh, this is something where, like, if it was golf, maybe it's like you're standing too far away from the ball or too close? Mm-hmm. 14:58 Um, is there anything like that, and is it, like, kinda similar in climbing? Yeah, I'd say so. I'd say it's the same, uh, yeah, same kind of mistakes, for sure. The main thing that, 15:13 like, I see, and you'd kinda talked about it or done it, [laughs] Sean, is, um, is, yeah, just rushing. [laughs] Like- Yeah. Yeah... 15:20 um, when you're, when you're kind of rushing through those things, you're not super aware of how your body's reacting to the environment or the board- Yeah... or the wall, or however else. 15:30 It's the same thing, um, in skiing, in snowboarding, skateboarding even. Mm-hmm. It's when people try to really rush through things that they're not- Yeah... laying a good groundwork for learning, I'd say. Um- Mm-hmm. 15:43 But yeah, like, a lot of it, unfortunately, kinda comes from just, like, not having much experience in the space, maybe not the fitness to engage in the water off the bat. Um- Yeah... 15:55 so, like, a lot of people under-paddling. Like- Yeah... like I said to you guys, the paddling is 90% of surfing. Yeah. And if you haven't got, like, that kind of endurance built into you, then it's, it's pretty tough. 16:11 Like, not saying that you can't build it over time. People absolutely do. Oh, yeah. Um, but, but that's, like, the one thing that's like- You're not gonna get it in a three-hour lesson. Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. 16:20 Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, we even have some people being like, "Oh, you're only in the water for an hour?" And I was like, "I guarantee you, if you still have juice after an hour- Oh... we could go for longer." 16:28 [laughs] But you're so done by the end of that. Um- I was looking at my watch, and with Garmin you can record surf sessions, which I didn't know- Mm-hmm... until I did my second one ever. 16:37 But looking at the heart rate data, I was like, "Holy moly." Like, I was, I was- Yeah... I was done when we were done. Mm-hmm. Like, it was- Yeah, for sure. You're getting beat up by the waves. [laughs] Yeah. 16:48 [laughs] It's like- Yeah. It's tough to hang out of the whitewash, like- I try. [laughs] Honestly, though, after- Yeah... after those sessions, I'm even... 16:55 Like, for the first couple of months, I was so toasted after just teaching- Oh, yeah... because you're just getting abused in the whitewash for so long. You come home, and you're so hungry. [laughs] Yeah. 17:04 It's ridiculous. Like, my back would hurt, and all sorts of stuff. That's terrible. Oh. But yeah, I think, like, main, main things is, yeah, rushing. 17:12 Also, just being stressed, which is hard to say, because it's a new environment. People are normally stressed anyway. I see that- Yeah... like, in climbing and in surfing all the time, 17:21 that if you're tense, you're not moving well. Like, your brain's taking up too much energy. You're trying to think too much about what's going on. Um, and it's kind of- Yeah... 17:30 that, like, anti-flow state, which you eventually get to. But yeah, just trying to, like, be relaxed, slow down, and yeah, meditative, and that. And then also that body awareness. Like, a lot of people aren't 17:43 testing their, the way their body moves in everyday life. Mm. Um, and so these kind of spaces, like, really make you try to kind of break that down, um- Yeah... and, and analyze it. 17:55 And even, like, in my surfing journey, like, I had some, some coaching this season from, yeah, Adam Tory and Jason Agnew, who's on our team as well, 18:05 and yeah, like, really makes you aware of how you're moving and how to correct those, like, little mistakes. [laughs] Yeah. 18:10 Um, like, I was, I realized that I kinda, like, brushed over- How I came to Tofino, but yeah, came here in, uh, the winter of '25, like '20- yeah, '24, '25. Started snowboarding in Nelson. 18:27 From there I was coaching youth climbers, so sc-school age, afterschool programs, right through to teenagers who were competing on a national level- Oh... which was really awesome. Um- Yeah... 18:37 and while I taught the technical side of, like, rope management climbing and, like, some rough coaching and guiding outdoors and that kind of stuff, I'd never really, never really coached performance in that way. 18:48 So it took me a while to almost deconstruct what I do in my, in my sport, which was climbing at the time, um- Mm-hmm... and then being able to translate that, right? 18:58 So, like, that kind of teaching was, like, pretty struggling, um- Yeah... and made me really think about what I was doing. And then this is my first season that I've been 19:11 surf instructing or surf coaching, and that's, uh, the same kind of thing that translates, right? So, like, in me, it was realizing what I'm doing when I'm out there performing or just enjoying it, whatever- Yeah... 19:24 and then breaking that down to then try to translate that to different people. And the main thing is, is that most people learn completely differently. See- Oh, yeah... 19:31 uh, in our, like, two and a half hour session, it really helps if it's a private, because then you can be one-on-one with that person relating to how they might be teaching, what they're looking for, and then- Yeah... 19:41 kind of reorganizing what you're doing, especially in the water, to then get them in that direction. Oh, yeah. 19:49 There's such a difference between doing something yourself and then being able to clearly articulate that to someone else. Mm-hmm. 19:55 'Cause if you're naturally good at something, you're probably not paying too close attention to- Yeah... 20:01 the subtleties in how you're positioning your shoulders, and all this little stuff that kinda comes naturally, which if you're coaching somebody, maybe it doesn't come naturally to, to the individual you're coaching, like me. 20:14 So yeah, no, that's, that's fantastic. So you got into it through the climbing space in Nelson, and then you brought that over to Tofino. 20:22 I guess when it comes down to Tofino, and we kinda touched on this before, the cold weather is fast approaching. Um- Mm-hmm... 20:31 now I know you mentioned that you were doing some cold water activities in New Zealand, and this would be your first winter season, which has gotta be a cool thing to, to get in front of. I know I'd be excited. Um- Yeah. 20:45 Yeah. Definitely. I'm, uh... Yeah, I spend the winters in... Well, I spent the last bunch in Fernie working- Oh, nice... winter operations. Um- Yeah, yeah... so about to go back and do that, uh, escaping- Nice... 20:56 one cold weather for another. But- Yeah... um, yeah, plenty of experience, yeah, cold water surfing in New Zealand. I was surprised to learn that the water temp itself doesn't differ that much. 21:06 I was expecting it to be way colder here. But yeah, apparently the Pacific doesn't get anywhere below eight degrees, which is about what it is in New Zealand, about 8 to 10 degrees, um, in the winter. 21:18 So a lot of the time you'll have the- Wow... the air is colder than the water- Yeah... which is a weird one. That is weird, yeah. And here I am thinking, I'm like, "It's, it's always sunny and beautiful in New Zealand." 21:31 [laughs] Like- Yeah. [laughs]... 8 to 10 degrees is not that great. Um- No, definitely not. Wowee. I mean- Yeah... a lot of the swell that we get comes directly from Antarctica, so you can kind of guess. Wow. 21:42 Like all of our southern swell is where there's no landmass in between us and Antarctica. Yeah. So. Wowee. So I guess it's a very similar wetsuit setup if you're surfing over there. Yeah, definitely. Like, yeah. Yeah. 21:55 Um, in the North Island, it's definitely a lot warmer, so you can kind of get away with, like, slightly thinner suits than we're wearing. But in the winter in New Zealand- Mm... 22:01 definitely hoods, gloves, that kind of thing. Yeah, suit up before you leave home. True. Yeah. I, I tend to try to eat a lot of fatty food. 22:10 I'm a skinny guy, so I don't hold much, hold much body fat, so I get cold- [laughs]... pretty quickly, especially with that wind. Yeah. So it's like eating as much as I can, carbs, fats, and then- Oh, yeah... 22:20 yeah, warm coffee or tea in the car afterwards. Oh, big time. I- Yeah... was seeing everyone changing in the parking lot, and it was- Mm-hmm... it was cool. 22:27 It was like everyone, like the locals, one guy asked me, he was like, "How's the swell out there?" [laughs] I'm like- Yeah. [laughs]... "I don't know." [laughs] Yeah, definitely. Like, "Good, I hope." [laughs] Yeah. 22:37 Um- Doesn't, doesn't make a difference, so I'm gonna hit fatty anyway. Yeah, I'm like, "It could be great." Um- Yeah. [laughs] So at that moment, I felt like a pro. Um- Yeah. But [laughs] 22:46 yeah, but it was cool to see, like, everyone had their own little setup and Tupperware containers with all their stuff in it. 22:54 But yeah, I think I'd be one of those guys where I'd be, like, getting changed either in the back of the car or- Mm-hmm... 23:00 'cause the other thing too is, is like with the booties especially, I was a rookie and I had a couple, I guess, leaves on the bottom of my feet, and then when I got out- Mm-hmm... 23:08 to the beach, I was like, "I can't keep this in here the whole time." Yeah. [laughs] This is gonna be rolling around like a pebble. So I did that, and then, you know, you risk getting sand in the shoe. But yeah- Yeah... 23:17 I'd be one of those guys, I'm sure, that would just be, like, getting ready in the garage [laughs] or something before I even- Yeah, we're, uh- Yeah... 23:24 yeah, we definitely do the suit up at home and drive down with the heater on to- Yeah... just get straight out and get in the water, 'cause as soon as you're hanging out for too long, it's terrible. 23:33 And the worst thing is, notice that especially in New Zealand with the colder temps, is that you get out of the water and your hands don't work. Oh, yes. So you're- Yeah... 23:39 like trying to unzip your suit and get your boots off and tie your board back to the car, and it's just like the... I've got lobster claws at the moment, like it's not working. [laughs] Oh my God. Is it... 23:49 D- and I know you mentioned this when we were out there, but i-i- it's a bit harder to paddle with the, the mitts, so do most people opt to have them on or off in the winter? 23:58 People will push it for as long as they can go without wearing them, for sure. Um- Yeah... like it's, it's the same thing as, as wearing a wetsuit. Like, it's easier to paddle without a wetsuit. 24:06 You're not as buoyant, but you kind of- Mm... are a lot more streamlined. 24:11 Um, it's just another thing that ends up filling with water, kind of weighing you down a little bit, and you kind of- You can't almost get the same paddle strength that you would with the gloves on. So I- Got it. Yeah... 24:21 for a lot of the time would push it for as long as I could in New Zealand without wearing gloves, and then when I had to wear gloves, I'd just end up surfing less, to be honest. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy, man. 24:32 No. Do you know how thick the wetsuits are in millimeters, typically the ones you wear? Yes. 24:36 So the ones that you guys were in were 5 millimeters on the chest and 4 millimeters on the arm, which is pretty standard for- Got it. Yeah... um, for winter wetsuits. That was even what I was wearing year-round. 24:46 Um, and a lot of the guys here would buy a winter wetsuit and then wear it through the winter, and then by the time spring rolls around, that suit's kind of stretched out, so it's not as watertight. Um- Yeah... 24:57 and so then that becomes their spring and summer suit. So it's [laughs] they end up wearing the same thickness year-round. But yeah- Yeah... 25:02 for a lot of the time, like I was wearing a 4 millimeter, 3 millimeter in New Zealand, and then when it got really cold, that's when you chuck the, the thicker one on. Um- Yeah... 25:12 and then, yeah, like if it's spring conditions, like summer, nice kind of 30-degree weather, a lot of the time you'd kind of get away with 3 mil wetsuit. That's cool. I swam with wetsuits on- Mm... 25:24 just through the triathlon stuff, and I, I remember the first time I did it, I was really concerned that it was gonna be super restricting. But certain wetsuits are good for swimming, others aren't. 25:31 But I was always surprised, like when I first got into it, like how much buoyancy a wetsuit does add. 25:36 [laughs] And you think it's, you think it's gonna be like a, a negligible amount, and you're like, "Hey, maybe-" Mm-hmm. No. It's like, it's there. [laughs] Yeah, you can float in those. 25:44 With the tri wetsuits, they like, they put the, the buoyancy, more buoyancy in the hips and the legs to keep you more propped up. Um- Yeah. Yeah... but yeah, dude, those, uh, that is a necessity, not a, 25:58 not something you wanna not have. Yeah. But holy moly, surfing without gloves in the winter, that's [laughs] that's pretty tough too, man. [laughs] Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. 26:06 I mean, like no one, no one really surfs without gloves. I've seen people with gloves right through the season, to be honest. Oh, yeah. 26:13 But, uh, yeah, it's, yeah, it's just a, like a necessity when it gets to those colder temps, otherwise you can't do anything, basically. Yeah. 26:22 Well, I stopped by one of the surf shops or one of your local surf shops, um- Mm-hmm... oh boy, what was the name of it? It's right beside the coffee shop with the- Storm? Pardon me? Storm? No. It wa- the coffee shop, 26:37 starts with a T. It has like a gull logo. Teffecian. Yeah. You're, you're talking about, um- That's it, yeah... uh... Oh my God, Lift to Surf. That's it, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. 26:46 So I puttered around in there and, yeah, there's no shortage of cold weather gear in- [laughs]... in a surf shop in Tefena. 26:55 And then I was also surprised, like I didn't know that fins were all interchangeable and- Mm-hmm. See? Total noob. But it was- [laughs]... just like [laughs] I was like, "Oh, this is interesting." 27:04 In terms of like wets- wetsuit stuff or like board stuff? Oh, everything, man. I was- Yeah... I was in there and I was like, "Oh, that's neat. You can swap off the fin on the surfboard." 27:13 And there's, there's different ways you can configure it. But then I started- Mm-hmm... thinking to myself, I was like, and maybe this is a question that you can answer, but how do you graduate down in sizes? 27:23 You're starting off, like I think- Yeah... the board I was on was 10 feet. So how do you... Is, is it like a, is there a standard timeline working on this for this period and...? Yeah. 27:33 It's, like I always say this for how long people should be paddling for, it's a bit of how long is a bit of string. Ah. It all depends, right? Yes. Like you 27:41 kind of choose a board depending on what your body dimensions are, what you're wanting to do, how the waves are working. So it's, it ends up becoming like a big iceberg of, of knowledge to like- Mm-hmm... 27:54 have, uh, understand surfboard dimensions and that kind of stuff- Yeah... what shapes are for and all sorts of things. But yeah, basically, there's kind of two/three categories of board. 28:06 Um, so you've obviously got like long boards, um, which are like great for learning on. The more volume you have, the more waves you catch. We like to say the more fun you're gonna have, right? 28:14 Weaker waves are usually better for the long boards, um, just 'cause you can get more speed to get into the wave. Then there's kind of short boards which lend themselves to more like maneuvers, like sharper turns. 28:24 If you're really good, like Harrison Aikman doing some big airs, jumping over waves and that kind of stuff, like you can get pretty crazy on some short boards. They just require a bit more fitness to really use. Mm-hmm. 28:36 Kind of stronger shoulders, more endurance, that kind of thing, because you are working harder to get that, uh, board into the wave. But then once you're up on it, then obviously it's more maneuverable. 28:45 Um, and then there's mid lengths that it's been something that's emerged in the last 30 years or so is like they're kind of in between, and then all sorts of like fun boards and weird shapes and that kind of stuff. 28:55 So that's kind of like you've still got enough volume to get you into the wave, but it's a bit more maneuverable than, say, like a big long board would be and that kind of stuff. Um, and then you've got fishes- Yeah... 29:03 which are like short boards with a lot of volume. 29:06 So you've got like something that would be shorter than your short board, but really wide and has a lot of volume, and so it picks up waves really well, um, especially when they're not as powerful, and then you can still kind of get some maneuvers and that kind of thing on it. 29:18 But, uh, to answer your original question, there's no defined timeline, right? Like- Yeah... 29:24 uh, what we like to say is that if you're catching every wave that you're paddling for on the board that you're riding, you probably could go down a smaller size. 29:33 But it also, like I say, depends what kind of waves you're riding, if they're really punchy, fast waves or slow, grovelly waves, and then kind of, yeah, like how, how you sit i- in that. 29:44 So there's a lot of, a lot of speculation. Everybody's kind of got- Yeah... what they call their quiver, like, uh, a bunch of boards, like one for every wave, one for every occasion kind of thing. 29:53 And we all make the mistake of buying boards that are too small for us, uh, before we're ready for them. Like I bought- Yeah... a, a board that I was riding a 6'2" fish, so a lot of, lot of volume. 30:04 I was riding that pretty much every week back in New Zealand, and then decided to buy something that's 5'8", more of a performance short board, which was realistically made for a child. 30:11 I'm not a big dude, but, uh, it was just too small for me at that time- Yeah... and I couldn't ride it. And then so when I came out here, I bought a 30:21 5'10" board, which was made by a guy down in Oregon, and that's been my board- This, this summer, and I've absolutely loved it. Um- Yeah... 30:30 it's the kind of style of board that I've wanted to ride since I started surfing, and then to be able to finally ride it and well this season has been- Yeah... like a big milestone for me. That's cool, man. 30:41 I'm sure each board is like, it's all handcrafted for the most part, I'm sure. So it's like one of those things where it varies, right? So like- Yeah, like-... buying a board is a commitment. 30:52 It's like [laughs] Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. There's, there's actually a bit of a split. There's the handcrafted side, which like a lot of boards previously were- Yeah... which is like they've got one shaper. 31:01 A lot of the time they're made for that person or just what that shaper's wanting to make. Um, but then- Yeah... 31:06 with the kinda like rise of larger surf companies in the last couple of decades, a lot of them are actually made on CNC mills. So you've got like a blank piece- Oh... 31:15 of foam, and then it's, uh, the model's input into it, it cuts it out, and then gets glassed by a machine. 31:22 And so there's kind of like this bit of a push to support local shapers, basically guys that make more expensive boards, but they'll put a lot more heart into them, um- Yeah... and you're supporting local. 31:33 So that's why like, yeah, the board that I've got is Scott Rowley, which is like a guy that's making them for the West Coast, and it shows. 31:39 There's another local company out here called Afturners who make a lot of boards. A lot of guys ride those out here, and that kind of thing. 31:45 But then on the other side, you've got larger companies like Mayhem and Channel Islands and that kind of stuff, which are all fantastic boards, but that kind of, that's, that's the stock. That's what you get. Yeah. 31:58 You can kinda differ within that, but it's buying, buying a board off a shelf rather than getting a board made for you or the conditions that you wanna ride. 32:07 Yeah, and by having that local feel to it, I'm sure there's a degree of the conditions that you're riding that get taken into consideration when the board's being made. Yeah, definitely. 32:17 Whereas if you're just buying something off a shelf, it's, it's, it's good, I'm sure, and you know- Mm-hmm... like all things, it's gonna perform. It's just- Mm-hmm... uh, having that little extra... I don't know. 32:27 I like supporting the little guy. So- Yeah... having that l- direct connection to it and being able to talk to the person directly who made it and understand what their ideas were behind it- Mm-hmm... 32:38 that's a pretty cool thing, and that's... You see that same thing in furniture. 32:42 It's completely different, but there was a time where cabinetry was an art, and people would build very nice cabinets, and that was a skill that was passed down, or even fine carpentry for that matter. 32:52 Very meticulously done and passed down. Well, that's hard to do in a world where you can go buy a dining set for $500, and it's supporting the people who have those skills still in a world that wants production. 33:04 Um- Yeah, definitely. So, yeah. I come from a, a design background, being a graphic- Yeah... designer from, for trade, and so I can totally relate to that as well. Yeah. 33:13 Like, had a lot of friends that were industrial designers and were really kind of pushing against that kind of like globalized market and that kind of like... Yeah. 33:21 There's benefits to being connected and having the ability to bring products across that seamlessly, but then also- Mm-hmm... 33:29 like the local aspect of it as well, from coffee to surfboards, even mechanics and stuff like that, just going to the local mechanic, the local farmer, um- Mm-hmm. Definitely... 33:39 all that stuff because a rising tide lifts all ships, and uh- Yeah, exactly... you can help the local economy. Yeah, it's great. Nice. So you touched on your, your brand background, your graphics design background. 33:52 Do you think you had those moments of like, I guess, flow state in the water or on the hill kinda directly translate over to performance within graphic design or any sort of design? Yeah. I'd say the... 34:06 Definitely, I think those moments motivate me. I wouldn't necessarily say it directly fosters the creativity. I think the c- the creativity comes through, like, understanding the narratives. Um- Mm-hmm... 34:19 like you've got, you've got a feeling that you feel in those spaces, and then like a lot of my work has been about translating that to an outside audience, um- Yeah... whether directly or indirectly. 34:29 So like my honors work was about kinda celebrating, uh, climbing spaces, uh, on indigenous lands in New Zealand and- Mm... kind of explaining why this is special to me and why other people should care about that. 34:41 And then, yeah, like I said, drawing on those narratives, like you've got all of these experiences that kind of ingrain these deep feelings in you and then how you relate to that space, and so you wanna protect it. 34:54 [laughs] Um, and you want- Yeah... other people to kinda have those similar experiences and be able to feel the same way and in turn kinda become guardians and protectorates for that space. Yeah. 35:04 No, I love that, and I think I was on the Tofino travel website, um- Mm-hmm... not too long ago, and they do a good job of communicating that like level of it's like responsible tourism. Mm-hmm. 35:14 And I think that's something that's really great, especially in places that need to be protected due to delicate ecosystems that are in place within those, within those places. 35:24 Because the more people experience it, the more people understand, and then that's, I think, you know, a great opportunity to help foster that protection side of it. 35:33 Because if people are there, they meet with the local community, they understand because they've experienced, you know, the beauty of the area, but then also what needs to be done in order to make sure that that beauty continues on so that more people can enjoy, and they can go back- Mm-hmm... 35:49 enjoy it again. It's like that old saying, you know, take only pictures, leave only memories, and then kind of just implementing that within the tourism aspect. So yeah. That's awesome. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. 36:00 It's, um- Nice... yeah, it's a big thing that's part of the New- like kinda New Zealand ethos. Um, we've kinda had this branding for years that we're 100% green, but a lot of that's kind of untrue. 36:12 [laughs] Like nothing can be- Yeah... 100% green. Um- Yeah... and kinda how you rationalize those differences is, is really interesting actually. Yeah. Wowee. Going back to surfing quickly. Mm-hmm. 36:26 Have you ever had any funny moments out there, funny lessons? Funny lessons? Yeah, for sure. A lot of the younger kids that I teach, like- Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah... a lot of the time they're super funny. [laughs] Yeah. 36:37 Um, and, like, it's, you can't really teach them much. It's the same with, like, teaching five-year-olds how to climb. [laughs] Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They just- Yeah... 36:44 wanna learn through play, and you just gotta foster that. Yeah. Um, and as long as they're staying safe, then, like, you're stoked, they're stoked. 36:50 I recently did a event called the Surf's Up event here in Tofino, um, which is basically getting, um, kids on the spectrum and their families out in the water, and so it was kind of a whole range of children all over the spectrum. 37:02 But it was really awesome because, like, a lot of the time they're pretty much non-verbal, but they get out in the water, they're not qu- really quite sure, uh, then they get a couple waves and they understand what's going on, and then they're stoked and they're just off and ripping. 37:16 Yeah. And that was really an awesome thing to be a part of. And that, yeah, happens every year. That's, that's probably, like, my favorite memory from teaching in Tofino, for sure. That's awesome. 37:27 Yeah, there's a degree of expressionism that can come from sport, especially for the first time. Like, you're out there- Mm-hmm... you're enjoying it, and, you know, they say mathematics is a universal language. 37:40 There's something about that in surfing as well, where, you know, you, you can communicate a lot through surfing. And, uh- [laughs]... I'm no seasoned surfer, but- [laughs]... 37:50 I can definitely, as you can probably, from my lessons, you, you, you can see that. 37:53 But it's like, yeah, it's, it's great that y- people can get out there and enjoy, um, 'cause it's a sport that I think a lot of people can enjoy. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. 38:03 What does a perfect day in Tofino look like for Elijah? Ooh, good question. I think early surf, glassy water, sun rising. Yeah. Get out of the water, go have a coffee, chill out for a bit, maybe take a nap. 38:16 [laughs] And- Love it... uh, yeah, then, uh, I don't know, fish, maybe go for a, go for another surf in the afternoon, have a sunset with a beer on the beach. It's, it's pretty good out there. Nice. 38:28 Two more loaded questions. Favorite coffee shop and favorite local beer? Favorite coffee shop's gotta be Tofino Coffee Roasters. I think they do it the best here. Okay. Unfortunately, yeah. 38:38 It's, uh, I was laughing when you had the Rhino package 'cause I was like- Oh, yeah... me and my partner were joking the other day, and that's, you, uh, you know who the tourists are because they've got a Rhino cup. 38:48 Oh, yeah. Yeah. [laughs] Um- Life at Reddit, man. It's double fisting. Yeah. [laughs] Yeah, totally fair. Uh, yeah, they get their, they get their Rhino cup and then they go directly line up for Tacofino. 38:58 [laughs] I don't know. Um, and, uh, favorite beer. It's gotta be something by the brewery. Oh, their Cerveza is pretty good. Yeah. So it's, like, just their, like, Mexican lager. You can't really go wrong with it. 39:11 There you go. Yeah. [laughs] Nice. Well, those are some... Anyone who's planning a trip to Tofino, those are some hot tips for you. 39:17 If you don't wanna look like a local, or if you're like me, and you say, "Hey, I'm a tourist." Yeah. 39:22 [laughs] Um, but I'm okay with that, 'cause at the end of the day, I'm gonna go to the park and some guy's gonna ask me how the swell is, and I'm gonna say, "It's pretty good." And, uh- Yeah [laughs]... you know? 39:31 [laughs] Yeah. Oh, you can get away with that, for sure. I just, you know, I, I can be adaptable. Yeah. Um, so- Just hit 'em with, "Oh, it's blowing out. It's terrible. Don't even bother." Oh, yeah. 39:39 [laughs] It's like, you know that interview that guy did on YouTube years ago? He was a surfer, and he's out there and he's talking, and the news reporter's asking questions. [laughs] Yeah, yeah. It's dropping smackler. 39:51 Yeah. [laughs] That's- I love it. Awesome. Nice, man. Well, Elijah, thanks so much for coming on the podcast, dude. Um- Yeah, no worries... 39:58 if people want to learn more about surfing and all that kind of fun stuff, is there any place that they could kinda get in touch or learn more or all that fun stuff? Just in case they're planning a trip. Yeah. 40:10 Yeah, absolutely. I'll plug Pacific Surf Co. That's the company that I work for, that's who Sean took a lesson through. Um- Yeah... awesome team out there. 40:17 Shout out to, honestly, most of the surf schools in, uh, Tofino are awesome. Uh, we work closely with Surf Sister. They're amazing. Tofino Surf School, great. Coastline and Swell, also awesome. 40:28 So yeah, any of those guys, absolutely fantastic. Perfect. All right. Well, surf's up. Thanks for coming on, and- All right... have yourself a great rest of your day. [laughs] Yeah. Cheers, Sean. Thank you. Bye. Bye.
